CITY OF SOUTH LYON

CITY OF SOUTH LYON

REGULAR CITY COUNCIL MEETING

January 8, 2007

Mayor Doyle called the meeting to order at 7:30 p.m.

Mayor Doyle along with Daniel Cavitt of a local Boy Scout Troop led those present in the Pledge of Allegiance to the Flag

PRESENT: Mayor Doyle

Council Members: Dryer, Kivell, Kopkowski, Maida, Morelli and Wedell

Attorney Lee

City Clerk/Treasurer Zemke

Department Heads: Collins, Martin & Renwick

ABSENT: City Manager Cook

APPROVAL OF AGENDA

CM 1-1-07 – APPROVAL OF AGENDA

Motion by Wedell, supported by Maida

To approve the agenda as presented

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

APPROVAL OF MINUTES:

Councilman Wedell stated that his motion regarding the Traffic control Order No. 06-06 was to postpone to a date certain, not to table. Attorney Lee stated that essentially, tabling the item accomplishes the same. Councilman Wedell indicated that he would like the minutes corrected.

Councilman Dryer stated that on page 2, the correct spelling of the Salem Township resident is Domanico.

CM 1-2-07- APPROVAL OF MINUTES – DECEMBER 11, 2006

Motion by Kivell, supported by Dryer

To approve the minutes of the regular meeting of December 11, 2006 as corrected

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

APPROVAL OF MONTHLY BILLS:

Discussion was held on the retirement pay for Marilyn Tuisku. Chief Collins stated that this would include payment for all unused sick and vacation time.

Discussion was held on the increase in pay from last month to this month for all employees. Attorney Lee stated that City employees receive 26 pays per year as opposed to 24 per year, which could be the difference between the two months.

The question was asked regarding payment for arbitration fees. Attorney Lee stated that this would be for an employee grievance issue. This would be our half of the arbitration fee.

The question was asked regarding payment to CMP for simunition kit. Chief Collins stated that this would be for a kit that would allow the conversion of a standard weapon that an officer would use to a training weapon capable of firing non-harmful bullets. This gives the advantage of practicing with the same weapon that they use on duty.

The question was asked regarding a payment for a muffler in the amount of $1,800. Superintendent Renwick stated that this would actually be for multiple parts. Only a portion of the items can be listed on the report.

CM 1-3-07- APPROVAL OF MONTHLY BILLS

Motion by Kivell, supported by Morelli

To approve the monthly bills as presented

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

CITIZENS SUGGESTIONS:

Mayor Doyle stated that he would like to observe a moment of silence recognizing the passing of former President Gerald Ford. A moment of silence was observed.

OLD BUSINESS:

Engineering Service Request for Proposals (RFP) – Approval of Engineering Services

Mayor Doyle stated that this item was brought forward prior to the holiday break. Council has received copies of the RFP responses.

Councilman Morelli stated that he had an opportunity to read through the books, but he does not understand it. He discussed the confusion between the multiplier, wage increase and reimbursable expenses. He asked what the multiplier is actually multiplying and asked what the reimbursable expenses are. He further discussed the confusion between the different companies and how they multiply the figures. He stated that he does not have these answers, therefore does not know how he could make an intelligent decision.

Discussion was held on the different jobs listed. Councilman Kivell stated that within the document, they did list the categories. He further stated that it is more complicated because the have classifications that have different descriptors.

Council Member Kopkowski stated that she does agree that there are a lot of questions. However, the City Manager has indicated that he did not invite Rowe or Wade Trim to the meeting. She stated that she feels that we need to ask these questions to the other people we are considering. She questioned whether it is fair to have HRC answer the questions without anyone else. Mayor Doyle stated HRC can answer questions that relate to industry standards. If there are specific questions, if Council wishes, we could direct the City Manager to invite the other companies. He stated that he would not like to see that in open-forum. He stated that the biggest challenge in going through these things is having a level playing field and comparing apples to apples. The reason this was brought forward was that there were some Council Members who thought that it would be worthwhile to explore what services are available from other firms and to make sure that we are spending our taxpayers dollars appropriately.

Mr. Keith McCormack discussed the multiplier. He stated that when engineers are talking about multipliers, they are talking about the rate they would multiply the hourly rate the individual makes. That covers all of the overhead such as cost of building, insurance, etc. and all of the items associated with running a business like theirs. This would be based on who actually worked on the job. He stated that some engineers will charge on top of that the cost of computer, faxes or various items, which are reimbursable costs. A lot of times, you will also be charged for mileage. HRCs multiplier includes all of those things. However, there may be items that would be considered reimbursable costs. For example, you need to rent a flow meter. If they have to rent that, then it would be a reimbursed cost. These are special charges, usually project related. So you need to look through all of the proposals to see how they are charging. Also, within the RFP was a request for billing rates. It is fairly typical, in doing these engineering RFPs, the firm will give a list of rates based on their definitions of their personnel. For example, what one may call a Civil Engineer II, another may call a Junior Engineer. A generally

recognized classification was issued to all of the firms that submitted a proposal. They all re-submitted their billing rates based on those job classifications so that the selection committee could look that over. In addition, in the proposal was a schedule of typical water-main jobs, etc. so schedules were included for that as well. These issues would be the same in virtually every other place that is looking for general engineering services like this. He stated that the question was asked about them being here and nobody else being represented. The selection committee has made a recommendation, however that is not saying that Council could not ask for an interview with one or all of them. Normally, it is not done in a Council session such as this. Usually there is a presentation done and Council would have a list of select questions to be asked so there is a sense in how they respond and react to certain situations. He stated that they are here tonight because they work for the City and they do watch the agendas and decided to be here to answer any questions Council would have.

Council Member Kopkowski questioned if the rates are the same for the City as it would be for a developer where it is reimbursable. Mr. McCormack stated that they are the same.

Councilman Kivell stated that AEW’s multiplier of 1 leaves a great deal of head-room to play with. Everyone else is in the same ballpark. He was not sure if there was some misinformation or a misunderstanding. He further discussed their billable rates and multipliers. He stated that in the beginning there where nine firms, yet there were three that did not respond. He further stated that the reason this whole issue came about was because over the last 12 years we have had nothing to compare. We could have been getting a wonderful deal or not, and we would have had no idea except relying on our experts understanding of where costs should be. If anything, this is a way that Council will end up having a better understanding of where costs should be aligned. He stated that everyone ends up being between 7-12% for design engineering and 8-14% for construction engineering. If you are talking about a million-dollar job, that spread could end up being a lot of money. This does not reflect a dissatisfaction of HRC, but yet more to make sure that we are doing the right thing and have been. If there is benefit to be had, it is Council’s responsibility to take advantage of it.

Councilman Morelli stated that he does hope that HRC does win this, but yet he still does not understand how these calculations were done. He stated that Wade Trim has the highest multiplier and highest reimbursement expense, but AEW has the lowest multiplier and have a 10% reimbursable expense like everyone else, but they come out almost the worst. Mr. McCormack stated he has worked with AEW and he knows what they are billing on other jobs and he knows it is not a multiplier of 1. They are a very similar size firm to HRC, but he has not seen the proposals. Council Member Kopkowski stated that instead of guessing, we should ask for more information from AEW.

Discussion was held on the summary information provided. Councilman Kivell stated that the City Manager indicated that the amounts reflected include the multipliers.

Mr. McCormack stated that Council is focusing on the financial aspect. These are professional services like selecting a doctor or attorney. You need to look at the qualifications. The Selection Committee looked at all of the resources of the various firms. This needs to be a major aspect in selecting an engineer. Councilman Kivell stated that that would start with pre-qualification. We would not ask a firm to bid on this if we felt they were not qualified.

The question was asked how large the firms are. Mr. McCormack stated that Arcadis is a national firm, Wade Trim has approximately 400-500 employees and HRC has 220.

Council Member Maida stated that this is a lot of numbers. She would like to see an actual bid on a project. Councilman Kivell stated that as a matter of practicality, there is a great deal of expense putting an engineering project together.

Mayor Doyle stated that memos have been prepared by both Bob Martin and Steve Renwick who work with HRC and other firms as well. He stated that in focusing in on the financial component, typically it is not uncommon to eliminate both the highest and lowest to put things on a level playing field. All of these are in the same range. This exercise in not horrible so that we can make sure that we are spending our money properly. The department heads deal with this every day and it is more of a partnership than just a vendor relationship. He discussed the relationship with the previous firm and the mistakes that they made.

He stated that all firms make mistakes, but what we need to look at is what happened after mistakes were made. From his vantage point, HRC has been very good. He stated that we can continue to go through this and continue to got through this on a regular basis as well. But, there has to be cause for us to start using another firm.

Superintendent Martin stated that initially there were nine firms we were dealing with and we ended up with six proposals. We narrowed these down to three because there were three that are higher than what we have now. We looked at the remaining three. It is difficult to determine and narrow down these numbers. He does not want to make light of the financial aspect, but when these companies are so close together it almost becomes a moot point. The dedication and treatment of the firm that we are working with becomes a huge deal. We looked at HRC and how they deal with us on a daily basis. He stated that he goes to meetings throughout the State and there are individuals from each of these firms that head a lot of these meetings so the expertise is there across the board. What he can focus on is the day-to-day dedication, the way the conversations occur between the engineering company, the engineer on site and the staff. He discussed the NPDES permit that will be coming up. We already have a firm on site that knows the history of the plant, where we have been with discharge limits and where we have been over the last 20 years. He stated that he has never once had an instance where was concerned. However, he wants Council to understand that we are not flagging everything as good just because we have a relationship, it is based on expertise and dedication. The knowledge is there, and the other companies would not have that knowledge at hand.

Discussion was held on the information about the lines, etc. already entered into our GIS files. Superintendent Martin stated that it is, but think where that GIS file came from initially. Councilman Kivell stated that we own that, it is our intellectual property so it is available for anyone to end up gaining that information. He further stated that he likes the fact that we have the terrific relationship with HRC, they have done very good work and they have been very attentive when there is an issue and are quick to come up with a way to resolve that. However, any good company would end up being in the same mind set if they want to retain a client. He does not want to downplay their role, but they are doing their job.

Council Member Kopkowski asked Superintendent Martin how many other firms he has worked with since he has worked for the City. Superintendent Martin stated that he was not the Superintendent when McNamee, Porter & Seeley were our engineers, but a chemist. He saw it more from a distance rather than working with the engineers on a day-to-day basis. Council Member Kopkowski stated that he then has nothing to compare to.

Superintendent Renwick stated that not only is it the information that we have on the maps but also it is the background of the projects, area, etc. including what is happening with the surrounding Townships. In reading some of the proposals, they indicate that it will take up to six months to get up to speed. He stated that he does not think that it can be done. It takes years to get up to speed on not only what is in the City, but also what is going to affect the City. He further stated that another thing to consider is the personnel and how long they have been in business. Look at the number of awards they have received. We have a good working relationship with HRC, and the time it would take to get another firm up to speed with meetings between the firm and the City could be costly as well.

Councilman Wedell stated that he took a considerable amount of time to read all of these proposals. All of the large established firms demonstrated their track records. Each of these firms strive to establish a long-term relationship with their clients, which is what we have with HRC. Our initial reason for the RFP was to examine the price structure that had not been bid out for a dozen years. There was a concern that we need to be appropriate stewards of the taxpayers money. Wade has a large client list based in Wayne County. HRC is an Oakland County based firm with a client list with local municipalities similar to South Lyon. Rowe is Genessee based and his impression was that their client list were smaller villages. Before he knew who our engineering company was, he had the opportunity to tour the Wastewater Treatment Plant. His impression from Bob Martin was the he was impressed with the engineers who had designed and built that facility. He further discussed the engineering of that plant. On the last agenda we were informed of the top treatment plant award. After reading through the proposals, he looked again at the memo from Rod Cook, Bob Martin and Steve Renwick where they unanimously recommend that we stay with our current engineering firm, Hubbel, Roth and Clark, and he is prepared to accept their recommendation.

Mayor Doyle stated that the pricing structure seems to be in the range for everyone. With the recommendation of the Department Heads to continue the relationship with HRC, he does not see any reason to do anything but that. We still need to continue to go through and “spot-check” to ensure that we are spending tax dollars appropriately.

Councilman Dryer stated that he also has been very happy with HRC, but he is not prepared to move forward. There are a lot of questions, and would feel better if everyone was comfortable understanding what it is we are paying for. He further stated that historical knowledge is useful in ways that you cannot measure. He is in favor of continuing the relationship, but he needs to have a better understanding.

Councilman Morelli stated that the City Manager did a great job narrowing this down to the three firms, but it comes down to dollars. He stated that he does not know how much money we spend for engineering every year, but if we save 5% it could off-set the knowledge.

Attorney Lee stated that he has the historical knowledge of when we changed firms. It is important to note that when you hire professional people, it is difficult to measure. What you are buying is their integrity, their enthusiasm and their concern for your business. In the case of McNamee, Porter & Seeley, they were the City Engineers for 15 years. The firm did not change, but what changed was that the Principal Engineer retired and the person that replaced him did not have either the enthusiasm or the administrative skill to direct the rest of the firm. The personnel did not change, but we had a series of major foul-ups, which they did pay for. The issue was the professionalism of the man that faced Council. There are many engineers, but what you need to look at is the work that has been done. You have dedicated people who face you, who step up and face their responsibility and ensure that they have people to do the professional job that they are hired to do. If you try and define that by dollars and cents, you are not going to find the answer.

Mayor Doyle asked where Council would like to go from here in order to provide the City Manager some direction. Councilman Kivell stated that he would like to see the information from AEW. The others did not provide the same position of potential margin.

CM 1-4-07 – ENGINEERING SERVICES – RFP

Motion by Kivell, supported by Kopkowski

To direct the City Manager to provide to Council the Engineering Proposal from AEW

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

Tri-Party Agreement 2007 – Project

Mayor Doyle stated that there have been some recommendations with one of the options to defer the funds. The only thing we really risk in doing that is if they change their mind, the funds would not be available. But, that would probably not happen.

Councilman Dryer stated that the first three options are very expensive. Item #4 is a good idea, but he feels that item #5, which is to channel the funds to the DDA streetscape is where the funds should be appropriated. This is money we are already going to spend, why not take other government funds and channel it into that project so that the funds will be available for other projects at a later date.

Council Member Kopkowski stated that she also favors item #5. It is a project we have already started and we should finish it.

Councilman Kivell stated that he is not opposed to #5. The one benefit that he sees in deferring the funds is the singaling at 8 Mile is for the relocating all of the signals when the trail goes in, and the amount of that project is very close to what we have here.

Councilman Wedell stated that he does favor both the signals at 8 mile and the DDA project. However, he feels we could defer the signalization until next year. Discussion was held on the timing of the Pontiac Trail/8 Mile project.

CM 1-5-07 – ALLOCATION OF TRI-PARTY FUNDS – FY 2007

Motion by Dryer, supported by Kopkowski

To allocate the 2007 Tri-Party Program funds to the DDA Streetscape Project

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

Acceptance of gifts for Holiday Party

Mayor Doyle stated that we received monetary gifts from our consultants as well as National City for our annual holiday party.

CM 1-6-07 – ACCEPTANCE OF GIFTS

Motion by Morelli, supported by Kivell

To accept the from the following gifts for the City’s Holiday Party with thanks:

HRC, Booth Patterson and Plante & Moran - $200 each $600
National City $200
Vilican Leman $150

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

NEW BUSINESS:

2007 Strategic Planning Meeting – Road Commission for Oakland County – Selection of date

Mayor Doyle stated that this meeting occurs every couple years. Brent Bair and other representatives from the Road Commission meet with us and present a map of current conditions as well as upcoming projects, etc. At that time we can express to them as well what we would like to see. Typically, the meeting is held at 5:00 p.m. and last a couple of hours. If there are particular dates in mind, let the City Manager know.

Michigan Municipal League Legislative Conference – March 21, 2007 – Who will attend?

City Clerk/Treasurer Zemke stated that the deadline is February 16^th.

Council Members Kivell, Wedell and Maida indicated that they will be attending. The remaining Council Members indicated that they would let the City Clerk know prior to the deadline.

COUNCIL COMMENTS:

Council Member Kopkowski stated that a couple of her neighbors have asked if they can get gravel in their alley. Superintendent Renwick stated that he would see to it that it is done.

Council Member Kopkowski asked if we have been using the streetsweeper since it has been so warm. Superintendent Renwick stated that we have not. The streetsweeper is in for repair currently.

Councilman Kivell stated that he noticed in the City Code update, there is no update for the City Council Members. It was stated that it lists those Council Members who were in office at the time of the adoption of the Code. Councilman Kivell stated that there is a separate page that lists “current” officials.

Councilman Dryer stated that he still has not been contacted by a census worker. City Clerk/Treasurer Zemke stated they are out working. The holidays, of course, delayed things. Discussion was held on the schedule and extension given by the Secretary of State.

Councilman Wedell stated that to all of those who worked on the Holiday Spectacular and those who attended, it was spectacular.

Council Member Maida asked for clarification on the Mill Street issue. Attorney Lee stated that their right to appeal the ZBA decision expired after 21 days after the approval of the minutes. However, they filed suit alleging that the actions of the City, generally, constitute a taking. In that they have mixed a lot of things from the ZBA. Our defense counsel will file for Summary Disposition to separate out those issues. The constitutional issues can be raised at any time.

Council Member Maida requested clarification on the local access channel programming. Attorney Lee stated that when he saw the new law, he checked with Tedd Wallace who informed him that we do not have eight hours of new programming any more than any network would. The fact is that we run the station more than eight hours per day, which makes us compliant. He has also advised the City Manager to contact the Superintendent of the Schools to make sure they do not run the risk either. Both channels are covered under our franchise agreement.

Council Member Maida asked if the ornaments for the holiday party were ordered from a local business. City Clerk/Treasurer Zemke stated that they were not; we ordered them online because we could not get the cost savings locally. Council Member Maida stated that she would like to be involved in that next year.

Council Member Maida stated that the Holiday Spectacular was a great success and wanted to thank everyone who were involved for participating. She stated that we are looking forward to bigger and better next year.

Councilman Kivell stated that with regards to the Mill Street suit, we are being represented by an insurance company, and their best interests is them, not necessarily us. Attorney Lee stated that when we are involved with this type of situation he insists that they name him as co-counsel. In this case, we have been through it before and we believe that the same attorney that handled the case the last time will be involved with this one. He probably will not be named as co-counsel, but he will keep track of it. He does always insist that he reads the answer to the complaint to make sure things are not misunderstood or mistaken.

Mayor Doyle stated that the Holiday Spectacular was amazing. Patti did a lot of work and it was remarkable.

CM 1-7-07 – ADJOURNMENT

Motion by Dryer, supported by Wedell

To adjourn the meeting at 8:50 p.m.

VOTE: MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY

Respectfully Submitted,

______________________________ _______________________________

John Doyle, Jr. Julie C. Zemke

Mayor City Clerk/Treasurer